Comments on Steve Hargadon: Web 2.0 Is the Future of Education

Great post Steve! I've been taking part in a cours...

2008-07-03T06:11:00.000-07:00

Great post Steve! I've been taking part in a course on 'Visual Learning' run by NAACE and as a consequence have been looking at the role of web 2.0 in education. At first I was sceptical about web 2.0 and social networking thinking it was just another way for us educational technologists to jump on the bandwagon of education reform. Howver, through the practise of blogging and taking part in forums I have moved away from 'I think therefore I am' to 'We participate therefore we are'. It has really revolutionised my understanding of education. Thanks Steve!
I've posted a response on my blog at edublogs.
http://innovateandeducate.edublogs.org/

Not being a trained educator, I suppose I should l...

2008-06-24T14:55:00.000-07:00

Not being a trained educator, I suppose I should limit my comments. But to have had these kinds of things available when I was in school! Wow. Add to that inspired, participating educators (peers in the flat scheme). Neat.

Some posters have raised the specter of challenges -- inertia, regulation etc.. As a member of one school district's technology dept. I see the point and am frankly discouraged on those grounds myself. It is real. But progressive thinking exists too.

We'll see.

Let's take a lesson from software versioning, whic...

2008-05-11T19:29:00.000-07:00

Let's take a lesson from software versioning, which implies incremental improvement. If, by "Learning 2.0", we mean "an improved version of Learning 1.0", I'm inclined to agree with that idea. The traditional learning model (teachers teaching courses)can certainly be enhanced by providing wider accessibility, enabling group projects, encouraging student-student and student-teacher interactions, etc.

If we mean something completely different from Learning 1.0, however, I think we're in danger of jumping the tracks. But then, I've never misunderstood Learning 1.0 to be one in which "teachers pour information into students' heads" (as some now characterize it) anyway, for the simple reason that no such thing is possible, nor has it ever been possible. Would that it were! But just try it and you'll be a miserable failure as a teacher.

Some may have read "Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions" by the behavioral economist at MIT, Dan Ariely. It's an interesting exercise to read the fascinating insights he provides and then to rethink your assessment of Learning 2.0.

Really, I think this blog post and the resulting c...

2008-05-11T18:52:00.000-07:00

Really, I think this blog post and the resulting comments illustrate precisely why we should be a little more cautious and a bit less orgasmic over "Learning 2".

First, in the original post, there is really nothing that has not been said dozens (hundreds?) of times in other venues. The original post, in fact, isn't original at all.

Redundancy is becoming rampant in the educational community as everyone rushes to say the same thing and I suspect the same thing is happening in other domains as well.

Now, hear some descriptives culled from the readers who evaluated this post: "great", "awesome" (several times - we seem to be losing our facility for language, or we are easily awed), "wonderful" and "absolutely wonderful", "informative", etc. A few readers took issue with the post or portions of it, but I think we can say "So much for peer review".

No doubt, the new "socializing", "content creation" and "sharing" technologies of the Web potentiate the creation of new or enhanced learning pathways, the most useful of which can probably be lumped under "accessibility". But let us not allow ourselves to be transformed (by means of these very social instruments?)into a cult of magical thinkers. Whether there is, really, anything new under the sun in education is far from proven.

The predictions that now abound in the Learning 2 domain are becoming downright silly, with "The End of Teaching!", "A World Without Courses!", "Self-Directed Learning!" and similar euphemisms for what really amounts to educational anarchy sprouting up in alarming numbers. It is impossible not to suspect that many of these articles are written by educators who are themselves ambivalent about education.

Somewhere today (I am researching the topic) I read that "learning really takes place in the conversations that occur in the hallway outside the lecture hall" (and not in the lecture hall itself). Really?

Lecture: "American conservatism can be distinguished from European conservatism in the following ways (which are then enumerated and illustrated)"...

Hallway: "Hey, baby, ya wanna grab a beer?"

The magical thinking is largely based on a mythical learner who probably does not, for the most part, actually exist until the average individual is past his undergraduate years. And, the magical thinking is also based on a cultic worship of the value (in the economic sense) of collaboration. It's funny, isn't it, how we've gone from thinking about "mob mentality" to "the wisdom of crowds"?

The more you know about the human mind, the more you know about exactly how learning happens (start with Ebbinghaus and work your way forward), the more you know about the development of the brain during childhood, adolescence and young adulthood; the more you know about what collaboration can do and does NOT do very well, and the more you understand the current youth culture, the less you will talk about throwing traditional learning models out the window.

Really great job organizing this rather large subj...

2008-04-27T21:47:00.000-07:00

Really great job organizing this rather large subject into a very engaging and thought-provoking article. The idea of a true paradigm shift when thinking and talking about “education” and “learning”---in that the age-old (and rather illusory) distinction between school and “real life” is ready to give way, thankfully---is truly exciting. Everything one does in life is a real and potential learning experience, covering a wide range of domains of thoughts, skills, and interests; even though many “disciplines” have been distilled into separate tracks and taught via traditional instruction (and that many people seem to consider this the embodiment of “education”), this should not take away from the idea that life-long learning is everywhere and in everything we do, and the relative importance of each should not be so casually ranked.

As we have seen, there are countless examples of extraordinary individuals and achievements, and many had little or nothing to do with typical education or with “book learning”. Even this term seems old-fashioned now, since books are but one of the many forms of communication and production which are readily available today---and particularly with the participatory elements, these forms truly have unlimited learning and networking possibilities. Putting them to use for learning (in whatever forms we choose) is definitely the future of education...the transformation of the concept of intelligence itself, as well as the transformation of the individual.

The list with “From the lecture to the hallway” was really right on. It’s so interesting how words can convey so many things, especially when combined in certain ways---or when arranged into a structure like this. It was so easy to get an overall gist of the ideas in such a quick read and the comparisons were striking. From my experience, really great teachers are facilitators as much as lecturers, and many times something they say quite off-handedly has really made a positive impact on my thought processes and worldview. Along those lines, encouraging words have such an important effect upon one’s work, their motivation, and their self-image; this is right in line with collaboration and discussion, not just from a “teacher” to a “student”, but in groups and online as well. Being able to connect with other people and their ideas, as well as be able to question and comment, is an incredible tool for learning and discovery, and these days it allows so many people to experience in the interchange by reading the results. This is but one of the truly world-changing elements inherent in Web 2.0, and for any life-long learner (as we all are), provides limitless possibilities. It’s fascinating to watch it evolve.

Hi Steve, et al,Thanks for the link to John Seely ...

2008-04-23T01:49:00.000-07:00

Hi Steve, et al,

Thanks for the link to John Seely Brown's talk at MIT.

I agree wholeheartedly despite the pessimism of several of your other commenters.

As a biologist grounded in natural selection, I take it on principle that any population that does not evolve becomes extinct.

This principle extends to the population of teachers in school systems. We are in a global competition. Having viewed the panel discussion at MIT, I have a sense that India has the leadership and the will to make Web 2.0 a dynamic part of their educational system.

Based on this premise, if a school does not embrace new competitive learning strategies, it can be predicted that their students will be at a marked disadvantage in the global marketplace. Teachers who stick to chalk and talk are not only doing their students a disservice but they themselves will become more and more easily replaceable by scalable instructional delivery systems.

The author of Wikinomics makes a convincing case that Boeing succeeded where Airbus failed due to the power of the collective.

If the local reality of many tech teachers in the US is typical of your naysayers, then those school systems will simply be left behind the global competition with disastrous consequences for our nation.

The IBM selectric was the typewriter of choice during my school days. Where is it now? School 1.0 may be replaced sooner than we think.

So let's get busy building.

Hey Steve! Great post! I really love it. Those wer...

2008-04-07T06:39:00.000-07:00

Hey Steve! Great post! I really love it.
Those were my thoughts exactly when I started to work on the web site for my kids' school.
You can find the whole story here http://or-tal.com/?p=10
As you can see we are a long way from making this happen.
Us, the technology savvy people, we are a different race from the technophob user. And there are many of those among teachers: some simply because they can't find the time to learn this new environment. And I am guilty of trying to push too hard.
I am reminded lately of this chapter on "little house on the prairie" were they introduced the telephone in town and how people objected to this witchcraft at the beginning. Much like some refrain from the web now.

Steve-Great post. You are a strong writer with in...

2008-04-06T18:03:00.000-07:00

Steve-
Great post. You are a strong writer with interesting thoughts to share. I'd love to hear expanded thoughts on your bullets ("from authority to transparency, e.g.") in future posts.
Thanks
Jason

Steve, I am new to your blog and am beginning prof...

2008-04-01T11:15:00.000-07:00

Steve, I am new to your blog and am beginning professional development in the uses of Web 2.0 in the middle and high school classroom. I found your post incredibly thought provoking, and enjoyed the contributions of your all who commented. Thank you for including practical advice on how to incorporate Web 2.0 in the classroom.

I have posted a brief of "Web 2.0 is The Future of Education" on my blog for my classmates to consider. I would welcome any comments or thoughts you might have to share with our class.

http://nooneknowsyet.edublogs.org/2008/04/01/web-20-and-the-future-of-education/

Great post, Steve. We're right there with you reg...

2008-03-19T17:53:00.000-07:00

Great post, Steve. We're right there with you regarding technology and social learning and are trying to spread the word by referencing you in our blog.

http://englishbabyblog.com/

Steve - this is a wonderful post and I have alread...

2008-03-13T10:17:00.000-07:00

Steve - this is a wonderful post and I have already forwarded it on to several colleagues. You are bang-on in your assessment of Web 2.0 being the future of education. I see it. I believe it. I want it to happen. Like several others who have posted comments, however, I am frequently left wondering how to make this happen. Many of my colleagues are still reluctant to do something as simple as using email. I have received nothing but complaints about requiring online registration for a district event ("Can't I please just do it on paper and send it to you?). When tasks like this are beyond their comfort level, I can't help but question how I will get them to become pro-sumers using a variety of other tools?

Some people are willing to learn and I try my best to help. In my "spare time" (ha!) I make myself available to work one-on-one with colleagues, have offered (and continue to offer) workshops to in-service and pre-service teachers, have shared knowledge through mentorship opportunties in my district and more. In my position as an elementary teacher-librarian I model the use of blogs, wikis, podcasts, Voicethreads and other tools. I maintain a virtual library website. I host online bookclubs using Moodle discussion forums. I teach information literacy skills. I listen to ed tech podcasts when I walk my dog, and I lurk in Ning groups like Classroom 2.0. I see the value in all of this and I try to make others see it to. Have I achieved success with a few “converts”? Sure. More often than not, however, I find that “you can lead a horse to water” is an accurate description of trying to affect any change in education... or with educators. These shifts are hard!

Do I blame my colleagues? No... they are busy, busy people. There have been very few pro-d opportunties to learn any of the new technologies – certainly even fewer on Web 2.0 topics.... not that the “one shot deals” are very effective anyway. It is hard to find time to play around with these new tools when they are already busy with all that they are expected to do. But I really, really really want them to...and I think our students need them to as well.

I guess, then, I am wondering if there is a “playbook” (or if one could be created) on how to gently move resistant district personnel and colleagues in the direction that we so obviously need them to go. How do a few already busy people affect enough change to make it so that (to continue with your water analogies) we actually feel like we're swimming with the tide instead of always against it? Help!

I attended that session at the Illinois convention...

2008-03-11T20:47:00.000-07:00

I attended that session at the Illinois convention. I left knowing that I had a career-changing moment.

Steve: While I do agree with your points in princi...

2008-03-10T11:22:00.000-07:00

Steve: While I do agree with your points in principle, I've been trying to think about how and why the promise of Web 2.0 is NOT delivering all we might want. I have been teaching a college class on and about YouTube, and that site, certainly, was mostly a disaster for higher education (thus, allowing us to name what we needed that it did not provide) including, for example and in brief: length and depth of dialogue, ability to link and comment across texts, to talk together at the same time, to form communities. I speak at greater length about this on my blog and on YouTube and would love feedback as these ideas are still forming!

Alex

I work in a university center that promotes teachi...

2008-03-10T10:39:00.000-07:00

I work in a university center that promotes teaching, learning, and learning technologies. However, for as much as we do encourage faculty to take advantage of the useful aspects of certain tools, I do have to wonder: as pro-sumers gather and produce data (is it information yet?), how much in-depth reflection on course content, progress, real-life meaning really happens. Is the amount of true reflection diminishing as more data (information?) is made available online to us?

I had an interesting talk with my uncle who is an ...

2008-03-10T01:22:00.000-07:00

I had an interesting talk with my uncle who is an educator in California. He's worked as principle for multiple schools, and ever since I was a small lad I remember he always had the most cutting edge computer. These days though he still has to teach the fundamentals of how to use a mouse and check email to teachers within the school system despite having been a strong proponent of technology and it's use throughout his career.

So with regards for how Web 2.0 is going to change education, and believe I think it will as well, don't expect it to happen soon within public education. For whatever reason the system is set in its way and there's still too many "greatest generation" and baby boomer teachers that are keeping public education from keeping pace with technology. Not to say they aren't contributing to the futures of the children they teach. But the generation gap leaves them incapable from innovating with technology or even using it effectively. I remember in gradeschool the teacher would use an "interactive laserdisc" for instructional purposes and it was more of a toy or caricature of technology than a real tool. Computers themselves were mostly things we just played math games on. And for many teachers, that's a far as it will ever go.

As of recent I've never heard of a digital life management and online ethics course taught at any school. I predict that within a few years, maybe 5, no more than 10, it will become a prerequisite class in many schools, most likely highschool. And of course schools will have their own social networks that interconnect with schools all over the world allowing for dynamic blended learning environments that will make schools today look like antiquated relics of the old world.

Until then, its up to the parents to teach their kids to use the web well, to play nice with others, and to to program so that they can make a web 3.0 startup in highschool and sell it to google in time to pay for college.

:P

PS: (I work for a web 2.0 education company)

Greetings Steve. I've never posted to anything but...

2008-03-09T17:15:00.000-07:00

Greetings Steve. I've never posted to anything but your post was awesome and I just wanted to say thanks for getting my interest piqued. I work in corporate education and can tell this really is going to change the way future leaders and workers learn. Many thanks. Richard

In the early years, before the internet was mainst...

2008-03-09T15:12:00.000-07:00

In the early years, before the internet was mainstream, it was celebrated as revolutionary precisely because of its interactive nature.

"Throw away your television, go online, debate, and be informed."

We had email, chat (IRC), web sites that were easy and cheap to publish (free for many). If you had an opinion, you could tell the whole world.

It has been that way for a long time, for well over a decade.

So exactly how is "2.0" a revolution?

I suppose it adds a slick layer that encapsulates and hides more of the technical obstacles to self-publication, much like geocities removed the need to understand HTML and FTP ten years ago.

A double edged sword, surely, easing the way for scholars and hate mongers alike. Not to mention the incessant clamour of conflicting and uninformed opinion, and the hawking of wares. All reducing the internet to a state very similar to television before the internet.

Don't mistake me, I welcome the advances that Javascript and asynchronous fetching of information (ajax) brings. It's just that I don't see it as particularly revolutionary, or that it will necessarily lead to any kind of nirvana.

Hey Steve. Sorry, as much as I want to share in th...

2008-03-08T21:02:00.000-08:00

Hey Steve. Sorry, as much as I want to share in that vision, the reality of that vision is something that I cannot see at this point. From your previous post about the "deer-in-headlights" from the ICE conference at Pheasant Run, I just don't see the Web 2.0 utopia a reality in the near future. I have seen that look in casual conversations with teachers, and even students. Honestly, I do not know where to begin.

Look, intrinsically, I absorb Web 2.0 stuff because technology and education are my passions. But I look at the landscape from the worm level and what I see are teachers who go to these conferences and get hyped, come back and settle back into their ruts because there is comfort there. There is nothing that forces them out of that rut.

The trends are there, yes, but there is no trend to get teachers to move. Technology is not on the test. There is very little hard data that would indicate an improvement in test scores from technology (see Maine Laptop Project where there have been minimal gains).

Look, in one post, it is deer-in-headlight absorbers. In this post you see active pro-sumers. There is something buried in the bottom of your post though that needs to be the focus before the trends even become a reality in education. "Help Build the New Playbook." That is where we need to be right now. The 2.0 should still be there, but I still believe we need to offer teachers that "buy-in." The ones reading this blog, the ones on twitter, the ones go proactively go to conferences, are not the ones we need to reach. They are already at the party. We need to get under the tip of the ice berg to the teachers still happy with their test scores and overheads and colorful chalk. That will be difficult. Web 1.0 was fast to these teachers. It changed the game because of the information suddenly available that wasn't there before. Now you have Web 2.0 and that moves even faster because the landscape changes so dramatically. Blogs are being replaced with Twitter and Pwnce (I heard it on the TwiT podcast and Dvorak made sense for one), but what will it be in a year or two? Teachers want something they can dig into and use not for 6 months, but for years. That's why Web 1.0 still rules the schools. Sorry for the long comment back. I think there are things I missed here, but I hope you understand simply that I am not trying to nay-say, but make sure this is a critical, realistic look at what may be.

Steve, while I have had a similar epiphany myself,...

2008-03-07T12:35:00.000-08:00

Steve, while I have had a similar epiphany myself, you were able to articulate it and bring it closer to the pragmatic level than I ever could. I agree in spirit wholeheartedly, but I share the concerns of brian and calvine, above, who cite the need for a critical mass of educators, administrators, and governmental agencies (who now seem to dictate edu policy more than educators) to see the new tools as shaping learning instead of an impediment to it. As Throughthephases points out, perhaps the very bottom-up nature of the shift will render such authority figures irrelevant, but as we know, Authority by its very nature does not take kindly to being marginalized. It seems to me that those in education, especially k-12 teachers, are the key missionaries in this shift, for they can be liasons between students and administrators, supporters of colleagues, while of course demonstrating for children (and their adults) how to use the read/write web constructively. They have many of the skills required to make web 2.0 more of a community than a wild west, as some have characterized it.

Thanks for the great post, Steve!

Great stuff! I agree with you whole heartedly. My ...

2008-03-07T11:58:00.000-08:00

Great stuff! I agree with you whole heartedly. My company provides solutions in this area for districts as well.

I am an academic writing about these very concepts...

2008-03-07T09:39:00.000-08:00

I am an academic writing about these very concepts in the context of history, social structure and class.

Your post is the most clear and yet thorough opening up of many of these issues I have come upon.

Thank you!

http://walrusmagazine.com/blogs

Brilliant post. Having recently taken part in a s...

2008-03-06T11:47:00.000-08:00

Brilliant post. Having recently taken part in a scenario planning event we discussed a future which fully embraced web 2.0. This is especially true with regards to the emphasis being on facilitation. As mentioned the information is already out there. I also strongly agree with the idea of authority to transparency. The whole idea of social software is about an open culture, sharing ideas/knowledge. If we can get to this point I think we'll begin to realise the concept of organisations being managed conversations (Manning 2001). http://throughthephases.wordpress.com/2008/02/01/making-sense-of-strategy/

Steve and Durff, I agree completely that this is m...

2008-03-06T09:33:00.000-08:00

Steve and Durff, I agree completely that this is more than just some tools, but a completely shifting paradigm that we have yet to fully grasp the meaning of, though we see glimmers.

Incredible post, and one that is going to be sent straight to my administration as well.

You've laid out some of the keys very clearly.

Thanks!

Many people just don't understand how paradigm cha...

2008-03-06T07:25:00.000-08:00

Many people just don't understand how paradigm changing, how life altering, how mind-blowing this all is. You are correct, this is not just another trend, but this is a major cultural shift.

Thank you for this very informative writing. You p...

2008-03-06T04:16:00.000-08:00

Thank you for this very informative writing. You picture bright horizons, and I can't hardly disagree with you. My only question is to what extent this future will come to developing nations. What can we do to broaden the roads for this future in remote places? Do we really have to wait for physical roads to be built before these ways are cleared? Is it not possible to leapfrog our way to a more prosperous future?

Anamaria